Jason Kidd is Much Better than Steve Nash!
With it seeming like more and more of the geek squad (i.e Marc Stein and Co.) are going to vote for Steve Nash for MVP, I thought that it would be proper to post a little bit of a Steve Nash hating post. Don’t get me wrong, I love Steve Nash and all. But I just don’t think a player of his caliber should ever be the back to back league MVP. That honor is usually set a side for players of the caliber of Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, and Larry Bird. Shaq and Hakeem Olawjuwon never even one the award two years in a row. And I know that a lot of people believe that the MVP award should be given to the player that is the most valuable to his team, but I have to disagree wholeheartedly with that. Throughout the history of the league the trophy has been given to the best performer during that particular year. Or in other words, the best player in the league during that particular year. Even an average basketball fan can tell you that Steve Nash is not the best player in the league. In fact, he might be the worst MVP in the modern era of the NBA. Seriously, is Steve Nash even a first ballot hall of famer? He’s not even in my top 10 point guards of All-Time. You’re telling me Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson in their primes wouldn’t have schooled this years version of Steve Nash? Maybe it is the lack of a true point guard in the league, rather than Nash’s actual greatness that makes him stand out? I mean take the early nineties. Think of the point guards around the league at that time. You had John Stockton, Gary Payton, Magic Johnson, Mark Price, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Terry Porter, Mookie Blaylock, Derek Harper, Mark Jackson, and Kenny Anderson. A few years later, players such as Penny Hardaway, Nick Van Exel, and Jason Kidd replaced guys such as Thomas and Johnson. My point is that the pgs of that era would run circles around point guards of today. Other than Chris Paul, Steve Nash and Jason Kidd, who are the true point guards that still exist in the game today? I mean you still have the overrated scoring point guards such as Stephon Me-Berry, Stevie Francis, and Allen Iverson, but those guys don’t count. I’m just saying that it is a down period for the position, and because of it, it makes Nash look like more than he is. Before his first year in Phoenix, did any of you actually consider Nash a first ballot Hall of Fame player? I mean, seriously! Prior to last year the guy only made a couple of All-Star teams and a couple of All-NBA third teams. Now the average NBA fan probably thinks Steve Nash is a better player now that Gary Payton ever was (which is just absolutely laughable to me). Nash is a good player, but more than anything he is a system player. Meaning he showed up at the right place at the right time. Kind of like how Andre Rison seemed like he was a comparable receiver to Jerry Rice for a couple of years because he was playing in the Atlanta Falcons high-powered 4 wide receiver Run and Shoot offense. Steve Nash plays in a system that highlights all of his assets. You’re telling me that Jason Kidd in his prime in the system the Suns currently employ wouldn’t run circles around what Nash currently does. Jason Kidd was made for this system, only when he played for the Suns he didn’t have a coach as great as Mike D’Antoni or a commitment to a running system the way that Steve Nash currently does have. As well, he never had players as good as Amare Stoudemire or Shawn Marion. Also, what about Nash’s current achievements is any better than what Jason Kidd did for the New Jersey Nets? When the trade was first consummated between the Nets and the Suns that sent Jason Kidd to the Nets for Stephon Marbury, how many of you actually thought that deal would propel the Nets into an Eastern conference powerhouse? I know I certainly didn’t think that. But that is exactly what J-Kidd did. He took the Nets to the best record in the East and to the Finals two years in a row. And if not for a bum knee against the Pistons in the 2004 playoffs, he probably would have taken them to the Finals for a 3rd consecutive year. If Jason Kidd didn’t get the MVP during those few years, there is no way that Steve Nash should be getting it now. The year prior to Nash’s arrival the Suns faltered more so because of injuries and coaching inconsistencies than anything else. The Suns were already a healthy franchise, only missing the playoffs a total of two times over a 15 year span. The Nets, on the other hand, were a perennial basement dwelling franchise searching for any ray of light. Jason Kidd single handedly resuscitated that franchise, yet where are all of his accolades and MVP trophies? On top of that, Jason Kidd does more for his team, because he actually plays defense. He’s Nash with D, minus the Jumpshot. And even his inconsistent jump shot is better than Nash’s non-existent D. Plus, hasn't Jason almost singlehandedly saved the Nets this season. He seems to be racking up tripple doubles (or at least near tripple doubles) on a nightly basis.
Just in case you have forgotten how great of a player Kidd was and is, take a look at the You Tube video below.
37 comments:
this year
kidd: 13,7,8 on .402 from the feild and .332 from 3
nash: 19,4,10 on .513 from the feild and .433 from 3
i dont have a basketball blog or notthing but im pretty sure whos numbers are better.
also nash has marion, whos great and then a buntch of 11th men that they signed from other teams. Kidd has 2 other allstar caliber players out there every night with him.
its not a life time acheviment award, its the MVP, the letters say it all. Take away nash and you have marion and trade throw ins, take away Kidd and you still Vince Carter and Richard Jeferson. They would still be winning the division with those two, but would PHX still be in the playoffs in the west?
Thanks for the comments. I wasn't saying that Kidd is this years MVP. I was saying that Nash is not as good as everyone else says he is. As well, numbers don't always tell the entire story. The Suns were always a good franchise prior to Nash. Where as the Nets were terrible prior to Kidd. More than anything, I am saying is what Steve Nash did for the Suns anything better than what Jason Kidd has done for pretty much every team he has been a part of? I feel it is very ignorant of you to think that New Jersey would still make the playoffs without Kidd. I highly doubt that. Numbers a side, he is the engine that makes them go. And please don't discount the Suns roster as being mearly composed of trade throw ins. They have strategically built that team to be composed of versatile players that mesh well into their up tempo, run and gun style of ball. In basketball, as with life, circumstances often out weigh actual talent and skills. I.E. being in a system that makes Steve Nash look great. You're telling me you don't think J-Kidd in his prime would not do a better job with that team than Nash is doing now? Again, I respect your opinions and appreciate your comments.
Yeah, funny how the highlight reel only shows the few times in his career when he's actually made a jumpshot, and not the thousands of times he's missed. Bigger, stronger T.J. Ford.
I can't believe someone just compared Jason Kidd to TJ Ford. Jason Kidd single handedly resurected a franchise and took them to two straight finals. Give the guy some credit. Jeez!
i buy into your logic. i'm not a nash hater and neither am i a big kidd fan but your arguments are sound to me. the honor of a two-time mvp should not go to a player of nash caliber...it's just doesn't seem right. i totally agree that kidd, at his prime, was a much better player. perhaps nash may have an edge leadership-wise. i mean, i can't imagine any teammate not liking the guy! (except perhaps the third string point guard who can't find his minutes.)
btw, i think mvp should go to kobe! haha!
Jason Kidd is the best point guard since Magic Johnson and can make ANYONE better. Nash is great in Phoenix given the personnel and the coach and the style. But in Dallas he often dribbled too much, limiting what Finley and Dirk wanted to do. It was inefficient and stupid.
Nash is a great player in a perfect system. Kidd is a Hall of Famer. This is not even a discussion.
Joey,
At least I know I am not the only one with half a brain in this world. Steve Nash will definitely be the worst two time MVP of all-time, right? And he is totally a system guy! No one seems to get this!
Co-sign*
Worst MVP ever!!!
No way mate! I can see the error in your ways all the way from England (and that's saying something).
When Kidd was great and dinosaurs roamed the earth, there was always a better player DURING THAT YEAR!! This should be simple enough for you to get, even though you only have half a brain.. No one was better than Nash this season or the last season. Easy. And about the 'sistem' Nash plays in, do you think he has an input regarding the players brought in? I do. That should also count for something.
Oh, yea, one more thing: basketball in the 80's and beginning of the 90's sucked!!! Defense was not that well thought out and, as such, it gave the players the chance to expose their strong points, such as basketball IQ and quickness, better. Nowadays, players are scouted from an offensive and defensive point of view, so everyone knows what to expect. Bird would suck nowadays, and half of the 'great'PG's you mention would stink all the way to England. Cheers mate!
English Man:
Thanks for the comments. But if you have been watching this series at all you know who the TRUE MVP is. As well, you aren't going to get much respect from hoops fans by saying that ball from the 80s through the Mid 90s sucked. That was pretty much the Golden Age of basketball...
All I know is that in 4 games Kobe played slightly better than Nash. The award is for the regular season MVP, even going to the playoffs should not be compulsory in order to win this.
bottom line - Steve Nash is a better fg % shooter then jason Kidd
-Nash is better FT shooter then Kidd
-Nash hits more 3pters then kidd
-Nash dishes out more dimes then Kidd
-If Nash had Vince Carter and Jefferson on his team he would post better numbers then he did this year already.
Nash is two time MVP of the NBA
so adding all this up =
Steve Nash is better then Jason Kidd oh ya and he is Canadian too
Someone is obviously from Canada...Jason Kidd play's better D than Nash, is a better play maker, and just a much cooler guy than Nash. If Nash makes his guys so much better, why are they struggling against my sorry ass Lakers in the first round? I'm not saying that Nash is not better right now, but it's just amazing to me that Nash is a two time MVP. When Jason Kidd in his prime did the same thing but better than how Nash is doing it now. Also, Nash is the WORST TWO TIME MVP ever! Shaq doesn't even own two MVP trophies! How is this even possible?
Yes I am proud to say I am from Canada although I am living in Bangkok Thailand right now.I am a long time baller and respect what Kidd has done in his time in the league and is still doing.He is consistently a triple double threat night in and out and is obviously one of the better point guards of this generation of guards.
Although you make it seem as if he is just so much more dominant then Nash which just isnt true.Yes Kidd pulls down more rebounds and a higher steals avg.which leads me to belive why you say he plays better defense.It isn't like Kidd is out there blocking 5 shots a game or something.
And it isnt like Nash just sits there like a pylon and watches people drive by him he does try and do what he can to defend people with his limited height and weight.
Nash's game is similar to Kidds offensively in the fact that they both make teammates better and get lots of assists.True Kidd plays better defense seen in steals and rebounding numbers but Nash obviously has better FG % and 3pt % numbers as well as higher PTs per game.
For any one to hate on Nash for what he has accomplished last year and this year he either has to be
A. unknowledgable of NBA
B.Racist (the MVP of NBA belongs to blacks of US orgin)
c.forgot to renew satellite subscription and missed last two yrs of reg season NBA games.
Also how is kidd a much cooler guy then Nash????
that is a pretty relative statement !! how does one measure COOLNESS
does it depend on what he wears or what kind of cereal he eats or maybe it depends on what kind of music he listens to or who his GF is? Cmon man coolness cant be measured.
Also Shaq is a underacheiver in my book and shouldn't be two time MVP.
If I was 7 ft 1 360 lbs
I could put up twice the stats Shaq does
considering Nash is half the weight and size that Shaq is and dominates the league says something about him.It is called tenacity and drive to be the best at his position.
I respect your well thought out opinions, but how could you say that Shaquille O'neal, the best and most dominant player of his generation did not deserve to win the MVP more than once. Come on now. Again, I am not saying that Nash is not good. But are you telling me that he belongs in the same category as: Bird, Magic, Kareem, Duncan, Jordan, and other two time MVP canidates. Prior to his last two seasons Nash was not even close to being a hall of famer. I think it has more to do with the system he is playing in than anything. Because Nash has been the same player and was putting up similar numbers in dallas. It's just that Dirk Sucked at the Pick and Roll, and Phoenix has way more shooters than Dallas ever had. Thanks again for your comments. Glad to see someone over seas is reading my blog.
Hi, the same guy from England again.
The point with Dallas is this: Nash made Finley an All-Star. Remember what happened after Nash left? Finley started shooting bricks and could not get anything done. The last year with Nash he was a borderline-All Star, the first year without him he was expandable.
Oh yeah, and Dirk came into his own in the last 2 years. Don't count that out.
Choice has been made man. Stop cryin' in your soup. If Kidd is the package you say he is then it will come. No? Otherwise get drafted to an NBA team and demonstrate how good these guys really are. I don`t think you`ve actually played against either, let alone any. Hence, your a blogger. Not a MVP voter.
Wow,
Some of these commenters make no sense: "otherwise get drafted to an NBA team and demonstrate how good these guys really are." What do my on court skilz have to do with comparing J-Kidd to Nash. "Hence I don't think you've played against either, let alone any. Hence, you're an NBA Blogger, not an MVP voter." NBA MVP voters are not former players or coaches, they are members of the media, who in my opinion are no better qualified to vote for MVP than any of the bloggers here. And just for your info, I'm sure I have more NBA contacts than you will ever have. As well, I've actually played against several NBA and D1 Players before. I got my ass kicked, but I have played against them. I have no problems with people posting contrarian opions, but at least when you do so, be sure to post something logical and factual
C'est vrai gar. Je n'ai pas une droit etre sur ta Blog. Je just fait une Google pour le nouveau MVP du La League du Basketball National. Pis, je trouvai ta site du basketball. Il est vraiment intèressant ton remargue du moi. C'est vrai. Je n'ai savoir pas du basketball, bain, J'ai savoir du classe. Est Mr. Nash avoir beaucoup ca. Le nouveau NBA chercher pour a image du classe. Le vieux league is fini. Est que tu comprendre? Je panse que tu as depit. Merci.
Translation. It`s true guy. I have little right and knowledge to be on your blog. I was just interested in googling for news about the new MVP. I found your site. Sounded like you had sour grapes, or "depit", because your man didn`t win. That`s cool. Basketball is very important in your life and I respect that. Good luck -- and I may be watching?
Most experts disagree on the definition of MVP and as such their will almost always be controversy. If by MVP you mean the most valuable player to his team on an elite team then Nash is definitely worthy. I will acknowledge that if they redrafted the entire NBA over again he would likely not even be drafted in the first round but that is because most people value athleticism first above other aspects of the game. But to discount his value is to simply not appreciate that basketball involves strategy, intelligence and leadership. He is the closest thing to have an actual coach on the floor. If you watch the Suns, you cringe when he is not holding the ball and controlling the offense. When he has the ball you feel relieved and know that good things are likely to happen. It was the same way when he was in college and helped a pathetic group of players reach the NCAA tournament and upset major teams (See Santa Clara v. Arizona).
Further I do not understand the argument that he is lucky to be part of a team that particularly suits his skills. It is managements job to assemble a team that takes advantage of the skill of its players. Don't you think Chicago did that for Jordan? Further, putting another hall of fame athletic guard in his place is inappropriate and ignores many other basketball factors. I don't think that any guard can come in there and do what he did, not Kidd, not Marbury, not anyone (And if you still can't understand it then go ahead and put him in the lineup instead of Magic with the showtime Lakers and I bet that the Lakers would still have won their championships). He deserves the Kudos he gets for bringing that team to an elite level. His value is also extremely evident in the playoffs where he raises his game and clearly is adept and bringing calmness to an otherwise shaky bunch. He is a true stud and truly deserving and can hold his head up high with the likes of Magic, Iverson, Garnett, etc.
Further as far as his athleticism goes, I can't think of anyone in the league who has the complete and deadly set of tools he does. He can drive by you (from the left or the right - I imagine he has more lay ups than anyone else in the playoffs), bust over you if you give him an inch (one of the top percentage shooters this year and in league history), and dish right around you (assist leader). And obviously you don't want to foul him (top free throw shooter in the league and top 5 in league history). A true offensive weapon. As for his defense, it sure doesn't seem like that is an issue with his teams since at the end it is all about wins and coincidentally his teams always do. I imagine he either does an adequate enough job or his offense outweighs his defense to such an extent that his defense cannot be really be looked at as a liability.
No shame in him being an MVP and I have a feeling his legacy will be one that belongs with the greats.
Compfever
Oh by the way, next year when he gets his players back a team of Stoudemire, Marion, Thomas, Diaw, Bell, T. Thomas, Barbosa, Nash......70 wins is not unthinkable.
Compfever, do you have a blog? I'm very interested to see what Nat has to say on this without Jason Kidd, etc. in the paragraph.
kidd did take that team to the finals in the East. a not so hot east.
I'll admit to being a Nets fan but come on. How many points did Nash score against J-kidd and the Nets on March 27th? ZERO! if that doesn't prove Kidd's superiority I don't know what will.
i thought that Lebron James should have won the MVP looking at what he did to the Cavaliers btw :P
Wow Kidd had two opportunities to nail the lid shut last night (Dec. 7th, 2006) and flubbed both times. Nash iced every opportunity he was given. I don`t know who is better, but just for the sake of argument..... I`ll never forget your words and opinion on this topic my man.
Un Gar du Quebec.
Nate, first of all, your comments are laughable.
The last 5 years Nash torches, by a large margin all of Kidds offensive Stats. He was one of only three people in the HISTORY of the NBA to be .500 from field, .400 from 3pt, and .900 from the charity stripe...and hes on pace to do it again.
Next, you say Phoenix was a good team BEFORE Nash got there, are you nuts????? They went from a 29-53 team (With JJ, Stoudemire, Marion etc)to a 62 win team and on to the Western Final.
Next, ask any active player who the best point guard is and they all say Nash. They have for the last 4 years.
As Kidd being a better playmaker than Nash, lol, try again. I didn't dislike Kidd, in fact I like him a lot but when dumb commnets are made I like to call them out.
Funny how throw away players &second rate players have their best numbers ever while playing with Nash (Bell, Diaw, Q,etc)
Next, as for skills. Nash owns the record and absolutley blew away the competition is the skills comp in 2005 against the best of the best.
Next,
Its funny but you get coaches, nay legends...like DOn NElson who said Nash was the best, smartest ball player he ever seen and was the highlight of his coach career(after he left Dallas). Nash was also voted as the player most likely to be a head coach because of his BB IQ, he is a student of the game, knows where all are at any time and can instantly break down situations.
I could go on and on but I've stated my opinion.
Oh one last thing...Nash does all this in the West, compared to the East(excluding 3 or 4 teams), the East is laugable and they can't even win consistently in the East with Kidd, VC, Jefferson etc.
Nuff' said.
You are an absolute moron, This has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read in my life. Nash is by far the best player in the leauge. Not only does he put up incredible stats, but he makes everybody on his team play good. And if you think that the player that performs the best should get the award, I guess that means that 19.5 points, 4 rebounds, and 12.3 assists a game isnt considered good stats to you. I can tell your a Kobe fan, I guess 29 points 5 rebounds and 4 assists are great numbers to you , but Kobe is not a leader and, he cant make the players around him better. I cant believe how bad you are hating on Nash. It makes me sick to hear people saying that nash is overraated , Kevin johnson and all those guys never put up stats like nash, sure they jumped higher , but nash has eyes on the back of his head !!!!! I have never read such a stupid biast peice of crap in my whole life, and i probably never will!!! you need to watch some suns games !!!!
For the people that say that Steve Nash would get better statistics on the Nets than he already does on the Suns i think its absolutely absurd. First of all Vince Carter is the laziest player and even with Jason Kidd you will very rarely see him run in the fast break. Im going to put out a crazy stat about Jason Kidd, he leads his team in rebounds as a point guard with about 8 a game. Thats insane, and it proves how horrible the nets big men are. I swear i almost watch every Nets game and I have never seen Jason Collins have more than 7 or 8 points in his career. Steve Nash's responsibilities are simple, he runs up court if its not a fast break its a high pick and roll with either Amare or Shawn Marion and he gets to decide wether to lob a pass to them which can be done by throwing it anywhere at all close to the hoop, pulling up for a jump shot, or kick it out to one of the many three point shooters they have. Dan'toni makes it so easy for him.
This is an interesting debate, but some people are missing the point.
Those who keep quoting stats are just stupid... Nate hasn't said that JKidd is a better player now, though I would argue he is a better point guard. There are a number of reasons for this, which I'll no doubt get an opportunity to raise at a later date.
I’d first like to address this moron who proudly states that he’s from the UK. Also being a Londoner, I’m horrified by your comments. All you North American readers please note that this gentleman does not represent the level of basketball knowledge held by even the average UK fan. Nate, please ban him from your blog, so I don’t have to read that garbage ever again.
I agree that Nash is a fantastic basketball player, and I believe that he might have rightly received the MVP award in 2005. I’ve yet to fully decide on that, as Shaq and Dirk had amazing years. But without a doubt, Nash is not a two time REPEAT MVP. Dirk Nowitzki, without a doubt should have won the award last year; barring some bogus officiating, Dallas would have won the championship (instead the officials decided to blow the whistle every time DWade went to the basket, notwithstanding that he was constantly initiating the contact). Dirk has no other superstars on his team (can someone please realise that Josh Howard is just as good as Luol Deng? He’s no all star!!) and even the good players (Jason Terry) are the epitome of inconsistency. Other good players (Jerry Stackhouse) are too often injured.
Anyway, back to Kidd and Nash. All you guys who are spouting about JKidd’s supporting cast being better than Nash’s should cut the crap. Richard Jefferson or Shawn Marion? Marion was a better player than Jefferson BEFORE Nash came on board, you clowns! Do some damn research! He averaged 20 before Nash even came to Phoenix, so tell me how Jefferson is better?! Now look at the rest of the guys; Amaré or Nenad Krstic? Boris Diaw or Clifford Robinson? Raja Bell or Eddie House? Leandro Barbosa or Bostjan Nachbar? Kurt Thomas or Jason Collins? (Okay that’s debatable, but I take Thomas, even at 40!). Anyone with half a brain can see that Nash has a spectacular supporting cast, and if any of you claim that Kidd wouldn’t have comparable numbers with the same team, you’re crazy. He’s averaging only two less assists than Nash this year (WITHOUT RJ & Krstic) and throwing passes to guys that can’t make a quarter of the shots that Amaré, Marion Barbosa and co. can make. I dare someone to deny that fact.
For goodness sake I reiterate I do not hate Nash, but there are reasons I’d choose Kidd over him, even now: 1) Kidd plays defense, 2) Nash isn’t doing anything that Kidd hasn’t done before 3) Kidd has been to the finals and was denied only by Shaq and his Wilt-esque dominance, 4) Kidd has a better assist- turnover ratio! 5) Kidd rebounds as well as passing, scoring and playing good defense, 6) When the Suns were playing the LAKERS in the first round of the playoffs last year, Nash TURNED THE BALL OVER allowing Kobe to make the game winning shot! Does a two time MVP choke like that in the playoffs? Against the corny LAKERS? C’mon now, there’s no way Magic, Stockton or even Kidd would have thrown the ball away because of some pressure from SMUSH PARKER, at such a crucial time. And the guy who did is honoured the NBA’s two time MVP. What a joke. I’d like to see Steve Nash put in effort all over the floor like Kidd does, and then we can see whether or not he could put up the same scoring/ assist numbers. Without a doubt his energy levels would drop, as would his productivity.
As for Nash making Michael Finley an all-star, unfortunately my fellow British blogger is buggin once more… Michael Finley first made the all-star game in 2000, and he took HIMSELF there, averaging 22 ppg, 6 rpg and 5 apg when Nash was still finding his feet in Dallas. That year Nash averaged only 8 ppg and 5 apg whilst starting only half of the games he featured in.
I was also disgusted by the gentleman asserting that Nash has haters who are mad the MVP didn’t go to a black man. What the hell?!?!? I mean what a stupid comment. It is clear that the modern game is dominated by black players, so naturally it’s more likely that they will be named MVP. But in any case, why is that relevant to this debate?
This year, once again Dirk should get the MVP. His Mavs are leading the league and chasing 70 plus wins, a feat if accomplished would be a first in the post Jordan era. If Nash wins again it would be a complete injustice to him, he deserves the award even more this year.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/marty_burns/03/30/hall.worthy/index.html
Jason Kidd is a better PG than Steve Nash hands down. He's taken his team to the finals twice with less talent and was robbed of the MVP of the regular season in 2002. Steve Nash is good but Mr. Triple-Double is better. J. Kidd is a first ballot Hall Of Famer as Steve Nash will be consider for the Hall Of Fame after ten to fifteen years maybe longer.
Hello, Mr. K (original nick, by the way). While I'm glad to see that we're both from the UK, that does not count for a lot; the country has its fair share of idiots...
Marion is fucking overrated. He's the classic glue guy, meaning that he's no good by himself, needss others that are good to be good. Trade him to Boston, see him go 4-19 every night when the defence collapses on him (low release point on the shot, awful mechanics, easy to block), can't pass to save his life, has no dribble to speak of (unlike RJ, who actually can do the point-forward -Pippen think every once in a while), and is a good defender only in comparison to the other SUNS (although Raja gets the toughest assignment every evening).
Stoudamire is useless without a great PG. Useless. Cannot shoot from more of 5 feet, has no low-post moves and needs the ball in certain places, at a certain height and angle to score. Krstic can shoot from 20 feet, can put the ball down and can pass. STAT is great, but without Nash he'd be like DHoward, powerful but hardly dominating and in no way capable of winning a game by himself.
Kidd went to the finals in the weakest eastern conference ever. Tell me that if the Suns get to the Finals they don't wipe the floor with whoever happens to make it from the east. Tell me that VCarter and Iverson are equal and better than Nash because they got to the conference/NBA finals. Tell me Barkley is not a top5 PF because he never won a ring. This is BS. Winning a ring is difficult even when you're the best - ask the Spurs.
Tell me that Boris Diaw averages 15, 6,6, with any other PG. Tell me why the fuck Eddie House ruled in Phoenix and sucks in New Jersey, playing the same role of the gunner? Tell me why everybody that ends up on the Suns' team improves their FG%? Because they get the ball where they want it, when they want it. That's what a PG must do. Tell me Kidd takes it to the hoop against Dirk. Tell me Kidd can make a bucket anytime he chooses to (only Kobe is better than Nash at this and comparable in clutch situations). Tell me Kidd can run like Nash can. Vince Carter is better that any other Sun except Nash. Any other. RJ is probably better than Marion. STAT may hold a slight edge, but it's more an impression due to the fact that he's strong and athletic.
Botton line: I'll go with Nash due to his ability to make a bucket anytime and make passes that Kidd never dreams of. I rate Nash slightly above Stockton, way above Payton and only slightly below Magic - who, by the way, could not defend either and I don't see anyone complaining too much about it. Nash is arguably a better team defender than Kidd. Individual defender? Kidd, hands down.
Better overall? Nash.
people forget how great kidd was and is...he has lead the league in triple doubles as long as i can remember. he took the nets from like 35 wins to the nba finals yet somehow they give the mvp to duncan..marbury was there and the nets did nothing...not to mention steve nash sat the bench on the suns behind jason kidd...under 21 people wouldnt know that..careerwise kidd is far better than nash..right now nash is better but prime vs prime its a no brainer jason kidd is the new magic johnson, hall of famer, and top point guard behind john stockton and magic johnson
by the way i cant believe this idiot adrian ranked steve nash above john stockton...geez boneheads like him let me truly know that people dont know their nba history...they see hows hot right now..for a career stockton is the great wall of china while nash is just a few dusty pebbles
Whoever said that Steve Nash ONLY has Shawn Marion is not really accurate. Could someone give some credit to my man Amare Stoudemire. Plus he has good players in Barbosa and Diaw. Did anybody see that game where Amare and Boris was not there against the spurs on a suspension. I didn't see Steve Nash take the team on his back and win. All of the above players are contributers...not just Shawn Marion and Steve Nash. Furthermore players of the caliber of Barbosa are definatly not trade-ins but could easily start on other teams. I also must conclude that i am giving no disrespect to Steve Nash. He just lost some key players in that playoff game. Basketball is a team sport.
Alot of these people commenting are obviously bias. The neutral, and honest, fact is as follows. Like one guy said on here, you explain why Mikki Moore lead the league in FG percentage. If you look at their COLLECTIVE CAREER, you will see that (A) Jason Kidd has accomplished more, and (B) he has played at the same level (if not elevated level) over his career. People only started getting on the Nash wagon when he got sent to PHX and played in a system DESIGNED for stats. Im willing to bet none of the people who biasly defend Nash being better were fans of his when HE played in Dallas. Let us have a look at the stats shall we?
The end all be all evaluation:
Steve Nash NBA career highlights
* NBA Most Valuable Player: 2005, 2006
* NBA All-Star: 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
* All-NBA
* First Team: 2005, 2006, 2007
* Second Team: 2008
* Third Team: 2003
* NBA regular season leader for assists per game: 2005 (11.5), 2006 (10.5), 2007 (11.6)
* NBA regular season leader for total assists: 2005 (861), 2006 (826), 2007 (884)
* NBA regular season leader for free-throw percentage: 2006 (.921)
* NBA regular season leader for assists per 48 minutes: 2004 (12.6), 2005 (16.1), 2006 (14.2), 2007 (15.8), 2008 (15.5)
* Lou Marsh Trophy (Canadian athlete of the year): 2005
* Lionel Conacher Award (Canadian male athlete of the year): 2005, 2006
* J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (NBA award for outstanding citizenship and community service): 2007
Jason Kidd NBA highlights
* 9-time NBA All-Star: 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008
* 6-time All-NBA:
* First Team: 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004
* Second Team: 2003
* 9-time All-Defensive Selection:
* First Team : 1999, 2001, 2002, 2006
* Second Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007
* NBA co-Rookie of the Year: 1995 (with Grant Hill)
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1995
* 5-time NBA regular-season leader, assists per game: 1999 (10.8), 2000 (10.1), 2001 (9.8), 2003 (8.9), 2004 (9.2)
* 3-time NBA regular-season leader, total assists: 1999 (539), 2001 (753), 2003 (711)
* NBA regular-season leader, total steals: 2002 (175)
* NBA All-Star Skills Challenge champion: 2003
* One of only two players in NBA history to record at least 14,000 points, 6,600 rebounds, and 9,000 assists in his playing career (the other is Oscar Robertson).
* In the 2002 Eastern Conference Finals vs. the Boston Celtics, Kidd averaged 17.5 points, 11.2 rebounds, and 10.2 assists per game, becoming one of only two players in NBA history to average a triple-double in a playoff series of six or more games (the other is Magic Johnson). Kidd did it again in the 2007 Eastern Conference First Round vs. the Toronto Raptors, averaging 14.0 points, 10.0 rebounds, and 13.2 assists per game.
* One of only five players in NBA history to lead the league in assist-per-game average for 3 consecutive seasons (the others are Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton and Steve Nash).
* Holds New Jersey Nets franchise records for career 3-pointers (729), career assists (4,090), assists in a season (808), steals (876), triple-doubles (49), and triple-doubles in a season (12, 2006-2007).
* One of five players to average a triple-double for a playoff series, joining Magic Johnson, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson and Fat Lever.
* One of only three players (Fat Lever, Wilt Chamberlain) in NBA history to post at least 15 points, 15 rebounds, and 15 assists in a playoff game.
* One of three players to average a triple-double for multiple playoff series, joining Magic Johnson and Wilt Chamberlain.
* Second player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire postseason. Kidd finished with averages of 14.6 points, 10.9 rebounds and 10.9 assists in 12 games during the 2007 NBA playoffs.
o Joined Oscar Robertson who averaged 28.8 points, 11.0 assists and 11.0 rebounds in 4 games in a 3-1 first-round loss in 1962.
* Jason Kidd is the first person in 10 years to obtain a triple-double for 3 games in a row with 13 points, 12 assists, and 11 rebounds (1/08/2008).
* One of three players to amass 700 assists and 500 rebounds in one season. Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson and Jason Kidd have done this 6 times.
* ranks 2nd in playoffs triple-doubles (11, as of May 12, 2007)
* ranks 3rd in regular season triple-doubles (100, as of April 17, 2008)
* ranks 4th in guard rebounds (6,908, as of April 17, 2008)
* ranks 5th in assist-per-game average (9.3, as of April 17, 2008)
* ranks 5th in assists (9,497, as of April 17, 2008)
* ranks 11th in steals (2,038, as of April 17, 2008)
* ranks 11th in 3-pointers made (1,355, as of April 17, 2008)
* ranks 12th in steal-per-game average (1.99, as of April 17, 2008
Three statistically brilliant (non-defense-playing) seasons on "America's Team" alongside a bunch of other running and gunning All-Stars that play in a system BUILT for statistics (and not play-off wins) doesn't push ANYONE into the top discussions to me, or anyone else. He has helped make the Suns entertaining and presented a real fun style of play. And for that he is loved more than anyone I can remember in modern basketball. But don't let that fan love and media frenzy for an all-around nice guy confuse you with all-time greatness. We can't forget Nash's GLARING weaknesses defensively. In two of the Spurs' wins over the Suns this post season, Tony Parker had 32 and 30 points. Is it reasonable to believe the Suns might have won one or both of those games if Nash could have done more to stop the opposing point guard?
Jason Kidd, for example, is not nearly the shooter Nash is; however, Kidd's exceptional rebounding and defense make up for that. Over the course of a career, Kidd has also been the better passer of the two. Kidd has led the league in assists per game five times and been in the top five twelve times. Nash has led the league three times and been in the top five just four times. If you look at the players listed in their entire careers, it's clear that Jason Kidd, John Stockton (assists per game leader 9 straight seasons), and Bob Cousy (assists per game leader 8 straight seasons) have had superior careers. Let us also not forget that Jason Kidd and Nash have been playing for nearly the same amount of time, yet Jason Kidd has more playoff and/or finals appearances. When he went to NJ he turned people like Kenyon Martin into phenoms, and a losing franchise into championship contenders for the entire stint he was there. Every teaam he has been sent to, he has made the players better. Where as Nash has been in PHX for years now and has yet to elevate his team mates. As far as the guy who said that Kidd/Dallas was struggling, you could say the same thing about PHX with the Shaq trade. It's not about him as an individual, it's about making a trade HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON and for a position that impacts the flow of the game heavily. You give JKidd this offseason of camp with the Mavs, and see how well they do next season. Oh and for the record, when he showed up in Dallas the entire teams average PPG and FG percentage increased, and Dirks FG percentage increased by nearly 6 percent.
When it's all said and done I can see Jason Kidd being in a high top five spot of all time great point guards, while I have trouble seeing Steve Nash squeeze in the top ten.
Nash being better than Jason Kidd is a silly discussion. I love watching Nash play, but Nash never put up these numbers in Dallas. You also have to agree it's odd that in his career in Dallas (and arguabley PHX) he failed to make the players around him better, while just half a season in Dallas Jason Kidd has brought up mostly all of his team mates points per game and FG percentage; most noticable in Dirk. For most of his career, Nash was a very good but hardly legendary player. A few years of stellar play in a system that exagerates statistics doesn't qualify a player to challenge guys who played at the same level for 10+ years, and to insinuate otherwise is not only ignorant but it's an insult to people like Magic, Cousy, Stockton, and yes..Kidd...who have played at the same or higher level their entire careers. And while the back-to-back MVPs are nice, I think most non-biased observers would agree that the NBA has a habit of giving the award to players that they want to use to cultivate their image, rather than the real MVP. In the past four years, the MVP's team hasn't made the Finals.
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